roof access

[jsatenant]

After years of roof access, the landlord has dismanteled the deck on the roof and put an alarm on the door so that we no longer have access to our roof which we have always used for small garden projects and to enjoy the skylines. The landlord has provided no actual reason for this other than that they say so.

What are the rules about this and is there anything we can do to regain roof access?

Thanks.

[mjr203]

sounds like you need the A-Team.

If the roof access was advertised when you took your apartment then you might have a case for a reduction of rent due to service reduction?

-POINTER

[dakellner@kcdlaw.com]

The loss of roof rights should be considered a reduction in services. The Pataki administration has modified DHCR procedures to make it much harder for tenants to complain about loss of roof rights. You have to show a lease clause or something else in writing that demonstrates that you had legal use of the roof before the landlord locked you out. The existence of the deck MIGHT help establish your case.
You should challenge the landlord's action by filing a building-wide reduction of services complaint with DHCR. It's a fairly simple form, so it's worth the effort.

[lappert]

The existence of a deck or other items on the roof intended for residential/leisure use is CRUCIAL to the claim. You can provide affidavits to your own personal knowledge (and that of other tenants -- you have organzied, right?) Photos help. Other evidence would help. DHCR generally requires that roof access was through stairs to a bulkhead, not through someone's window or fire escape ladder. Be aware that the LL might claim it's a safety issue/fire issue. Get him to go on record otherwise before you make the claim. Some will claim it's an insurance issue, but it's still his responsibility to make it safe AND provide the service. Do you homework; research the issue before filing a complaint as DHCR uses a lot of excuses on this issue.

[jsatenant]

Thank you for all the advice, it is good. One question: any suggestions as to how to get the LL "on record" about why they have closed the roof?

[mjr203]

Originally posted by jill:
Thank you for all the advice, it is good. One question: any suggestions as to how to get the LL "on record" about why they have closed the roof?

try to get him to send you a letter formally explaining the removal of roof access in response to a letter of yours? (send yours certified.) i don't think it is NECESSARY to have your LL on record before proceeding though.

<small>[ June 11, 2002, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: pointerout ]</small>

[Phil Cohen]

Also I think the new rules require that you ask the LL first to restore services.
Affidavits from several tenants would help prove the amenity issues.

[jsatenant]

Thank you all for your input.

Well I have the forms from DHCR. The previous writer is correct, you must notify the landlord in writing before you file with DHCR and then you must file within 10-60 days. There is also a form to get it handled by a mediator, which is supposedly much faster - does anybody have experience with mediators? Are the results negatively affected if we go that route?

Also, someone suggested we research the topic first. I have tried some searches on the DHCR and other housing websites that I can find, but I'm coming up blank, not even a starting point. Can somebody lead me down the right road? Also, does anybody know under what conditions the DHCR would consider it valid to close the roof?

Thank you for your advice.

[Cranky Tenant]

I would NOT recommend opting for mediation I opted for mediation a couple of years ago. Three months later, after the LL took me to court, Mediation forwarded them to the usual departments.

Despite what the forms say, your complaint is not necessarily docketed retroactively to the original date you signed the form. Both of mine were lost in the process so the first complaint was docketed three months after I submitted it, while the second was docketed nine months later.

Because the decreased services complaint remained in Mediation for three months, the effective date of the order was three months later than if I had NOT agreed to mediation. As a result, I lost three months rent reduction.

<small>[ June 11, 2002, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Cranky Tenant ]</small>

[jsatenant]

Well did anybody see this week's New York Magazine? In the second paragraph or so they mention how this one coop board won't put the deck on the roof because then if they ever want to take it down the rent regulated tenants will get a rent reduction. Like it's a done deal. They also talk about the landlords being scared of the rent regulated tenants. Have you ever heard such nonsense? I wish my landlord was as scared of me as I am of him!

[NYL]

In this case the roof access was just restricted. What happens if the door to the roof is locked though ? Is that legal (at least not from my understanding of the Multiple Dwelling Law) and what can you do in such a situation ?

[lappert]

Not sure if that's legal if it's completely locked - might violate building and/or fire codes having to do with egress in case of a fire. Some places will put a crash bar with an alarm, making it legal for egress purposes. (the egress through a roof bulkhead would allow residents to go to a different part of the building and climb down another fire escape). Call DOB and the Fires Dept.

[jsatenant]

I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed the lock the roof for fire reasons, though I have tried to reviewf the building codes on the DHCR website and couldn't find any mention of things involving the roof. If it was allowed to be locked I am very very certain my landlord would have done it. They put an alarm on it, which is really fun in the middle of the night when it goes off for apparently no reason (strong wind?)

[NYL]

Not sure, but i think it depends on how many exits are available or something like that.
The regulations can be found in the NYC Fire Code or so i think, but i can't really imagine it should be legal to lock access to the roof, even if an alternative exit exists...
Hope somebody will be able to answer this question....

[jsatenant]

I found the building code at http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/code.html but it is really lengthy and roof issues don't immediately pop out to me. Hope this helps.