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Is new C of O required….

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Is new C of O required….

Postby Bd212nyc » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:03 pm

Residential building, built 1904, last C of O from 1960’s shows 40 apartments. New owner bought out 27 rs tenants. Permit for major reno of 27 apts, combining many. Number of apartments now is 31, down from 40. Is a new /amended C of O required?
Thank you!
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby TenantNet » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:59 pm

On general, Certificate of Occupancy's are required for all buildings constructed from 1939. If earlier, an alteration (a change of use or change of room layout) will trigger a need for a COO. You say there is an old COO. If nothing has changed, then they don't expire, unless it's a temporary COO. A temp COO will say so on the page and indicate when it expires. If expired and a new one is not issued (or a final one), then they are out of compliance. The problem is getting DOB to enforce it. Based on what you've said above, I would say yes, a new one is required. Chances are they won't make any attempt to enforce if construction is still ongoing.
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby Bd212nyc » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:14 pm

Building built 1904 Last c of o 1962 Old Law. All Construction for the 27 apts + combinations ended 2017.
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby TenantNet » Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:30 pm

"Old Law" should refers to date of construction (you say 1904), not 1962. But see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Law_Tenement which limits Old Law to 1901, then see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Law_Tenement which should incorporate the 1904 date.

See https://zola.planning.nyc.gov/ for more informtion than you can ever want.

You say the last COO is from 1962, so you can match that up with DOB records to see what happened in 1962 that triggered a need for a COO.

A trigger depends on what happens. If, for example, they change a floor of a building from an office or warehouse to residential, that's a change of use, and that would trigger a new COO requirement.

However, COO start from 1939, so the above is academic. Here's one page on COO:
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/buildings/pro ... pancy.page

(they say 1938, but for every 1938, I see a 1939)
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby Bd212nyc » Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:01 pm

May i send you the most recent C of O?
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby TenantNet » Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:19 pm

Better send us the address or block & lot number by private mail (not to the public area of the forum). See the "PM" button on the left. You can access all COOs via the DOB website.

However, I don't know what we can do with it; based on what you said above, it seems that the COO must be updated. You should also check to see if the owner has filed plans with Dept. of Buildings. That can be serious if they haven't - including egress issues.
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby Bd212nyc » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:22 am

Thank you. Yes, permits filed, everything is on dob website. Original layout as built in 1904, there were 4 apts per floor, 24 apts total. Then later some apts were divided, yielding 39 apts+ commercial space. Now, after most recent renov, apt count is now 31 with no more commercial space. How cani find out if an updated or amended C of O is required?
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby TenantNet » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:16 am

OK, so I got your block and lot number. You didn't specify the Borough, so I'm assuming it's in Manhattan. Advise if it's different than that.

From Google StreetView, It appears to be a corner building of 6 floors in a quiet residential area. I don't see where there would have been any retail stores or commercial space. There is a single door on the side street - was that for a doctor's or dentist's office? If so, that would be common on the first floor of some residential buildings.

Zola from City Planning says it's in a Historic District, so there might be some restrictions from that. Zola also reports that the building was altered in 1989, and that it has 39 units (38 residential).

I also found a 2015 BSA appeal for this address on http://www.citylandnyc.org/. The owner/applicant is a well-known commercial landlord with a questionable reputation. The application was to "vary height limitations for vertical enlargement." My question is, have they added anything to the roof to make it taller? (just Google around and this stuff pops up). You might be able to get more information on this from the DOB website.

Right now I can't get to the DOB website; it often has problems at night. I would need DOB access to look at things like COO, applications, landmarks, BSA, etc.

I am able to check the HPD website, and it says it is not registered with HPD. That's illegal as any multiple dwelling of 3+ units must be registered. The lack of registration might prevent the LL from bringing certain housing court cases. However there are 22 violations listed.
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby TenantNet » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:06 am

I was able to access the DOB site this morning.

First, there is a failure to certify correction of a Class 1 violation. That could mean the repair was not done, or they didn't certify it.

Second, it is a landmark building, but doesn't say if that's external only or internal as well. You should check with NYC Landmarks.

Look at Zoning documents and then Job No. Seems back in 2015 they filed for an "ENLARGEMENT TO ADD SEVENTH FLOOR. RESPECTFULLY REQUESTING ZONING AND CODE REVIEW FOR BSA REFERRAL." (Look under Job description of the PW1 form.) I mentioned that in the post above - it appears that was refused, but that they were appealing it. Look at Schedule A which describes the existing and proposed alteration.

Looks like on the 1st floor they proposed to reduce the seven apartments to three units. On 2nd and 3rd floors, they were combining and reducing units from 7 to 5. On the 5th floor from 6 to 4 units. And then they proposed to add a 7th floor with one unit (presumably a penthouse with terrace).

For explanations and guidance, see https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/p ... rguide.pdf
and https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/finance/jum ... gcode.html
and https://www1.nyc.gov/site/buildings/cod ... ables.page
or better, just Google "NYC DOB apartment occupational status j-2 r-2"

This stuff gets pretty heady, so I would suggest you consult with an architect - to focus on what's important.

I don't know the outcome of the 2015 BSA challenge. Some owners will go ahead with alterations like this even if the city agencies deny permission.

As to the COO, there are three:
10/26/1951 37 apartments + the basement super apt., no commercial
12/31/1952 38 apartments + the basement super apt., no commercial
12/11/1961 39 units + the basement super apt., no commercial

If units are combined or if they change use, then in our view, a new COO should be had. But I would check with an architect.

Looking at complaints, there are many. I presume there were no permits had or posted for all the demolition. But LLs often ignore violations, and getting DOB even to place violations is much harder these days. Have you gone to your elected officials or community board?

This is a mess and all I can do is give you an overview. Also look at the DOB Public Portal; DOB is migrating to this new system, or so they say.

Lastly, if you don't have one already, put together a tenant association. You can't do it all yourself.
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Re: Is new C of O required….

Postby Bd212nyc » Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:17 pm

Thank you, thank you.
Question: after completion of work , whats the time frame for theLL to amend the C of O
bc # of dwelling units decreased, from 39 to 31.
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