Was my apartment potentially illegally deregulated

[One10128]

Hi All,

I moved into my apartment in Feb of 2021 and I recently requested my rental history that has me question deregulation of my apartment.

Rental history shows:
Initial registration in 1984 - Rent $332.05
1985 - *RENT CONTROL - REG NOT REQUIRED*
1986 - *RENT CONTROL - REG NOT REQUIRED*
1987 - *RENT CONTROL - REG NOT REQUIRED*
1985 - *RENT CONTROL - REG NOT REQUIRED*
For each year afterwards each line states the same up to 2016
2016 - *RENT CONTROL - REG NOT REQUIRED*
The same family lived in the apartment from 1984 to 2016 (and before 1984).
2017 - PE (Permanently Exempt) - 07/31/2009 (filling date) - HIGH RENT VACANCY -
2018 - Exempt Apartment - Reg not required
2019 - Exempt Apartment - Reg not required
The same all the way to:
2022 - Exempt Apartment - Reg not required

I know that apartment was renovated in the first half of 2016, after the rent controlled tenant moved out.
After renovations it was listed in June of 2016 on Streeteasy and the rent listed was above the deregulation threshold at the time. (apartment in a building with over 50 units).
It was rented for the lease start date July 1st of 2016 and the same family lived in the apartment through Dec of 2020. I moved in right after them.

I rented the apartment on Feb 1st of 2021. Apartment was not officially on the market and was not listed online.... I negotiated my rent for less than it was listed back in 2016.

Before moving in Feb of 2021 I lived in a different rent stabilized unit since 2017.
Rent was above the deregulation threshold at the time (rent was around $3,000 - previous tent was paying around $1,500 but with "individual apartment improvement (IAI)"done it was raised to around $3,000).
However the owner/management never destabilized the unit while we lived in the apartment. The owner is Solil and they are on top of their apartments that need to be deregulated, destabilized.... they sent out high income requests/notices.... but I understood that they had to wait for us to move out in order to destabilize the unit with "HIGH RENT VACANCY" option (of course before the 2019 law).

Questions I have regarding my current apartment, that I live in now:
It was deregulated with HIGH RENT VACANCY in 2017 even though it was occupied since mid 2016 (it was occupied at the time of supposed deregulation)?

An apartment needs to be vacant or not to use the HIGH RENT VACANCY option?

Also, I thought that Rent Controlled apartments are by default Rent Stabilized for a next tenant in buildings with more than 6 units, regardless of "individual apartment improvement (IAI)"done (rent would be higher but it would be rent stabilized for a next tenant)?

Let's say that previous tenant (before me, 2016 to 2021) did receive rent stabilized lease in 2016 (after rent controlled tenant moved out and renovations were done) and was paying the rent over the treshhold limit at the time, how it could be destabilized in 2017 with HIGH RENT VACANCY if they occupied the apartment in 2016, 2017 through 2020?
My apartment with Solil was not destabilized in 2017,2018... even though rent was over the threshold at the time, my guess - because it was still occupied with the same tenant?

Am I missing something or it was potentially properly deregulated?

Any advice is greatly appreciated and feel free to let me know if I can provide some more information or context.

[TenantNet]

A few observations here... First, if you're paying $4,000 per month or above, then why are you here? While not certain, that $48K per year might mean your income is around $150,000 or above. Get a lawyer! Get a tenant lawyer (some advertise on this page) and chances are they will give you a better assessment than we can.

Second, For RC units, they were required to be registered once, in 1984, and never again. Units would be RC is they were occupied by the same tenant (and family) since before 7/1/1971, which is why many are now dying off.

Third, to be deregulated for high rent (not high income), the unit's legal rent must be above the threshold (that changed over time) and could only be deregulated on a vacancy, which explains why it wasn't deregulated when you were still there.

Fourth, there is generally a 4-year look-back period when challenging deregulations. That means if you file on 2/1/23, DHCR or the courts can only go back as far as 2/1/19 to consider evidence. Anything before that is not considered, unless you can show fraud, and that's very hard to show.

We've answered these questions many many times on the forum, please search for them or browse around.

IAI's - until 2019 - were allowed to have 1/40th of their cost added to the rent. In many cases, LL's didn't do them or didn't pay the amount claimed.

SOLIL is one of the more notorious LL families around. That was Sol and Lillian Goldman and their divorce was quite famous, with many of the family members suing each other. Roy Cohn (Trump's friend) also made a big appearance. Google it. The kids now run the empire.

I don't know if you'e asking about the place you live in now, or previously. You don't make that clear.

But yes, a high rent deregulation could only occur on a vacancy. And the new (unregulated) tenant must have a lease. There's a case on that. You might have a hook there. The 4-year limit might preclude that, but you never know, that might be something in which a court could find an exception in the tenant's favor.

[One10128]

Thank you for your reply.
I only mentioned my experience with SOLIL from 2017 to 2021 as an example that units can only be deregulated/destabilized on a vacancy. Yes, you confirmed my understanding that that's why it wasn't destabilized while we lived in the apartment. That apartment is still rent stabilized because we moved out after 2019 law. And yes, the rent that I paid was correct after IAI was done in that apartment.

Re We've answered these questions many many times on the forum, please search for them or browse around. I did, but none of the answers are straight forward or not very clear because every situation is different or questions don't have enough details....

I'm asking about my new apartment, that I live in now - from Feb 2021.
If there was a foul play I would like to bring this unit back to rent stabilized status. For myself and future tenants because so many were destabilized over years....

Do you think that there was a potential fraud to deregulate in 2017, since it was rent controlled until 2016, renovated in 2016 and occupied continuously by the same family from 2016 to 2020?

That new lease in 2016 should have been rent stabilized by default, for the new tenant, right after rent controlled tenant (with increased rent for the IAI done)?
And also to stay rent stabilized after they moved out in Dec 2020, after 2019 law?

Thank you.

[TenantNet]

I think your question comes down to if a RC unit should become RS, or can it just be deregulated completely (pre 2019 law)?

I think it's fair to say that no one really knows. See https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyo ... egulation/
and the item "How are rent controlled apartments decontrolled?"

Also see https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... 0-2022.pdf
or just Google "DHCR rent control deregulation"

In my mind, RC units in 6+ buildings should become RS subject to the Fair Market Rent Appeal process. But yes, many RC units were just deregulated, and many LLs didn't even bother to make real IAI improvements. Why should they? DHCR rarely checked. One might claim that the FMRA process precludes any 4-year limitation as the FMRA 90-day period doesn't start until served with the RR1. However, LLs will claim the prior tenant was served with a RR1.

The process is intended to fail.

I also found https://apps.hcr.ny.gov/StatutoryDecontrol/
Owner's Report of Vacancy Decontrol, where the online form says:
"Please do not use this form to report the High Rent Vacancy Deregulation of a rent stabilized apartment. Deregulation of a rent stabilized apartment for this reason is to be reported on the Annual Apartment Registration Form by selecting the High Rent Vacancy option on the Exempt Status tab.

Within 30 days following the date of first rental this report shall be filed with the Division of Housing and Community Renewal by delivery or mailing. This report needs to be filed if the apartment was subject to Rent Control prior to the vacancy; it is not to be filed if the apartment was subject to Rent Stabilization prior to the vacancy."

I also found https://itkowitz.com/booklets/illigal-d ... in-NYC.pdf
This comes from a landlord attorney. I haven't read it yet, but maybe there's something in there.