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How to understand Rent History in terms of law

NYC Rent Regulation: Rent Control/Rent Stabilized, DHCR Practice/Procedures

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How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby brooklyn321 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 9:02 am

I just discovered this site and am so thankful. I hope someone else can help me understand.

I just received my rent history. It was first registered in 1989 as rent-stabilized for $775. It has VAC/LEASE for $600 after that date and gets to $707 in 2001 and then the final rent I see is for $783.89 in 2006 and it says LEASE/RNL. I don't see any "D" which I think is supposed to mean deregulated. After that, it says "REG NOT FOUND FOR SUBJECT PREMISES" from 2007 through 2021.

So I moved in July 2019. In 2020, I never received a lease renewal. Two weeks ago (2/28/22), my super gave me two lease renewals, one backdated from 7/1/2020-6/30/2021 (with no increase) and 7/1/2021-6/30/2022 (with a $30 a month increase).

My questions are:
1) I've read that my rent history isn't really official, so how do I know if my apartment is really rent-stabilized if my landlord hasn't registered it since 2007?
2) If it is rent-stabilized, can I make him register the apartment? The fact that he tried to get me to pay from a backdated lease is making me feel like he's going to try something. I called and spoke to someone in the office who told me that they couldn't contact me since 2020 to sign that first renewal. I never left NYC during the pandemic and see my super fairly often. Obviously, they are lying but I am afraid that they will increase the rent a lot or try and de-stabilize my unit.
3) Will filing a complaint with the DHCR be a good idea to get him to register? I want to confirm whether I am in a rent-stabilized apartment before I do anything that could have negative results for me.

Thank you!
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby TenantNet » Sun Mar 13, 2022 12:53 pm

Did your original lease say the unit is/was rent stab? Did they include the 12 page DHCR informational rider along with it? See this: https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... 19_0_0.pdf

I think this is the latest version. It must be attached to all new and renewal RS leases. Make sure section 1 is completed. Tenants do not need to acknowledge receipt in section 2.

On the renewals they gave you, are they on the official DHCR RTP-8 form? See https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... llable.pdf

They MUST be on this form, and the informational rider must be attached. They must conform to any increases set by the Rent Guidelines Board.

Chances are they didn't, but you have to ask. As for the backdating, some will say it's not a problem to sign a backdated lease if what is in the document reflected what actually existed. But we strongly advise not to sign any such lease. In our experience, there are often items - like the rent - that can only increase with a lease or DHCR order. Also, renewals must reflect the expiration dates of the prior leases.

So if your lease expires on June 30, then the new one should commence on July 1, not May 1st. You can sign it early, but the TERM DATES must reflect a continuation. On the other hand, it's OK if there is a gap. If that same lease expired on Jun 30, and the LL didn't give you a renewal for several months, it's OK to have one that starts on Nov. 1 and which would reflect a new starting date.

Also, any renewal notice must be given between 90-150 days prior to the commencement of a new lease. So if you got one today, March 13, 90 days would be June 11 (because March and May have 31 days). So a renewal - and any rent increase - then cannot commence prior to July 1st, the first rent payment date after the 90 days.

Here, he wants to increase your rent retroactive by $30/month. Don't fall for that.

In our view, the rent history reflects what a LL reports to DHCR. Tenants can still object to the a) the RS status of the unit, b) the level of the rent, and c) any overcharge (within four years). I can't be certain, but I think the overcharge limit might be six years after June 2019. That would likely be spelled out in the Regina case. As you moved in in July 2019, that might not apply to you.

As for your RS status, if the LL has not - or will not - acknowledge that, then you can file a status/overcharge case with DHCR. From what your post indicates, there is no statement that the rent exceeded the high rent threshold. If there is no proof of deregulation, DHCR should accept the documents and not give any credibility to any new excuses the LL might offer, meaning the rent should be the same of the last registration. But this stuff can get complicated and our word is not gospel (and neither is the LL's word).

One thought - before you file anything with DHCR, get the LL to admit on paper to certain things, like the RS status. I would even consider recording any phone conversation. In NYS, that's legal, but getting it introduced as evidence is something else. But ... if they say that, then you can write back, saying something like, "in our phone conversation of [date], you said _____ -- and so on. If might be a little self-serving, but it might work if the LL doesn't object.

Also, your post doesn't give us much detail or the rent the LL is charging or if there are any Covid-related complications.

Since June 2019 there is no high-rent destabilization available. They can do it by combining two units, but you don't say that.

Check your lease - it might say any notification must be by certified mail. If the office called or if you bumped into the super, that doesn't count for anything. They would have to prove they sent you a renewal by certified mail (or perhaps a process server, which is highly unlikely).

In fact, unless you have a reason, I would not speak with them on this issue either in person or on the phone.

As for registration, yes, they are supposed to do that. In general the rent can't go up without a valid lease AND registration (both). So lack of registration, in our view, can be a good thing. In some instances, you might need a lease to show to other government agencies.

Filing with DHCR is always a crap shoot. You can also go to court, but they might send it to DHCR and it might be expensive. DHCR does not require an attorney, so the expenses are low if you don't have legal help, but they are often anti-tenant and can take a very long time.

Starting now, keep every scrap of paper from the LL, from DHCR or that you produce (including envelopes). Major letters should be sent certified. Follow all DHCR instructions and deadlines.
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby brooklyn321 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 3:51 pm

Wow!
Thank you for such a quick and thorough reply.

I looked really carefully through the rent renewal paperwork and he has some DHRC documents such as a rider that says it has to be attached to every renewal lease for rent-stabilized apartments as well as some other papers about IAI and some other things that are different from the plain language lease I signed when I first moved in but none of the forms that you attached. (I'm happy to send along a scan of all documents if that would clarify).

My fear is that if I don't return the back-dated leases, he will say that I am basically telling them I am moving out and they will assume I don't want to renew. So, I did fill it out and make out the checks because I'm nervous.

When I call I get someone in the office and they just tell me a manager will call me back but no one ever has. I will definitely scan and take pictures of everything but if I can afford the increase, would you say this is the path of least resistance in terms of keeping my apartment?

What I ultimately want is an acknowledgment that this is rent-stabilized but I can't see them telling me that since no one calls me back. Is there any way to get confirmation this is rent-stabilized besides them telling me? I don't want to risk my hand if I make a big fuss and it turns out it's not stabilized and then they increase the rent to an astronomical price.

Thank you again!
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby brooklyn321 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 4:23 pm

Just to add some more details:

In July 2019, I rented for $1900 a month. The renewal for the backdated increase is from 7/1/2021-6/30/2022 is for $1930. I am not upset about the amount of money so much as setting a precedent for increasing rents and then backdating them.

I would prefer not to interact with them, but besides sending in the rent renewals, I don't know how to make it clear that I intend to stay but also don't want to be too aggressive if I am not rent-stabilized.

Thank you again for the help, I am going to hold off on sending off the renewals and checks for now. But at what point, if they don't hear from me, they would try and end the lease? Sorry this is causing me so much stress and anxiety I feel like I barely sleep anymore.
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby TenantNet » Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:11 pm

My view that being nervous is not being smart. If you have doubts, then get a legal consultation with a tenant attorney, and I mean a real tenant attorney (some advertise on this site, but we don't get a kickback). Talk to someone who represents tenants, not some immigration lawyer above the deli on the corner. They might agree with us, or they may not, but don't act on sheer nervousness. Otherwise, why even ask the question here? You would be wasting our time, and your time.

One option is to send the LL a certified letter objecting to the backdated lease and demand a renewal lease on the DHCR RTP-8 where the lease term commences between 90 and 150 days after your receipt. Make sure you put in any such letter, it is your "intent" to renew and are not moving out. Courts have long relied on tenants' intent. So say that.

If you have questions on that, then read the back side of the RTP-8 form.

Also, understand that by demanding a RTP-8, you are demanding they comply with RS rules. If they say, no, the unit is not regulated, ask for proof (in another certified letter). LLs are supposed to send DHCR a notice of deregulation.

This is from a landlord law firm:

Owners must give written notice by service of an HRVD-N form, to the first tenant of a deregulated apartment that the apartment has been deregulated. The notice must be completed so it contains the last legal regulated rent, the reason that the apartment has been deregulated, a calculation of how the rent reached above the threshold, and a statement that the last legal regulated rent can be verified by the tenant by contacting the DHCR.

The owner must send a certified copy of the notice by certified mail within thirty (30) days of the signing of the lease by both parties, or within thirty (30) days after the tenancy commences, whichever occurs first. The owner can also opt to deliver the notice to the tenant at the signing of the lease.

In addition, the owner must send a certified copy of the exit registration filed with the DHCR to the tenant within thirty (30) days after the tenancy commences or the filing of the registration, whichever occurs later.


See the HRVD-N form at https://www.msnhlaw.com/docs/hrvd-n-sj.pdf

Now, if the LL fails to produce that (or I would do this now) is to ask DHCR for a copy of any such form in its possession using the Freedom of Information Law (FOIL). See https://hcr.ny.gov/freedom-information- ... ts-records

Also see https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... llable.pdf

Send the request by email. They might want you to prove you live in the unit, so send along proof of residency like a utility bill in your name.

I would broaden the FOIL request to ask for ANY and ALL documents relating to your apartment, including any record(s) the agency might have from any prior tenant cases. But the point is to get the HRVD-N form.

Now, many LLs didn't bother submitting the form. But that's on them.

You probably have ZERO chance of losing the apartment. Even if they took you to court (and there's a LONG backlog from Covid, and if you had filled out a hardship form, or applied for ERAP, then they can't even come after you for 12 months. And with all that you might win and get the rent reduced (you didn't tell us what the rent was or any of the other documents - you've been very vague about all of this), or if you lose, then you would owe the difference. You said you could afford it, but why should you enrich an illegal act?

The way to get an acknowledgment is a) the LL telling you that, or b) go to court, or c) go to DHCR. That's it.

BTW, they don't "end" the current lease, that "ends" when it runs out. If they don't send you a proper lease, and if you stay, just keep paying the old rent unless you have some other reason to withhold rent. If they then accept the rent, you would become a "month-to-month" tenant at the same terms and conditions as the expired lease.

If they don't accept the rent, then they would have to commence a Holdover proceeding (or if they claim you owe more rent, they could commence a Non-Pay proceeding. Either way, these can be handled, (properly, not by nerves).

And seriously, don't lose sleep over this. If my 95 year-old grandmother was nervous, I would understand. Old people get nervous (and LLs prey on that). But it you're younger, then there's NO REASON to be stressed-out.
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby brooklyn321 » Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:13 pm

Thank you for all of that information. I'll be filing a FOIL request tomorrow and will start researching attorneys.

I'm not trying to be vague on what the rent was, sorry. This is what the rent history says:

In 1990 it was 775
In 1993 it was 600 until 1998 when it was 642
1999 it was 667.68
until 2002 when it went to 707.74
In 2003 it was 736.05
In 2005 it was 783.89 and the last recorded rent is 2006 for 783.89
After that, from 2007-2021 it says "Reg not found for subject premises"

I know that I am paying $1900 and now they want $1930. So there is a big gap from 2007 until now with no information.
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby TenantNet » Sun Mar 13, 2022 10:06 pm

For High Rent thresholds, see
https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... 2-2020.pdf

High Income is a different animal, but there aren't too many High Income cases. It's much more difficult for the LL to establish a tenant's income.

I would talk to neighbors to see if they remember who lived in the unit at various times; perhaps they might have contact information. And based on what we know (although there is a case that might still be in litigation), the first deregulated tenant must have had a lease. While see above for the form, many LLs ignore that and to be honest, it seems DHCR does as well. Still, the LL will have to come up with something to show a unit was (legally) deregulated on or after 2007. These cases can be complex, so I would start with your research now.

Also, if the LL has done it for your unit, chances are they have done it for other units. Find out how many buildings they have and look to see if there are other cases of potential illegal deregulation. You should be able to FOIL from DHCR any decisions they have for the various buildings, and then see if there are court cases.
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby Landlords Boy » Tue Mar 15, 2022 1:22 pm

...The fact that he tried to get me to pay from a backdated lease is making me feel like he's going to try something. I called and spoke to someone in the office who told me that they couldn't contact me since 2020 to sign that first renewal. I never left NYC during the pandemic and see my super fairly often. Obviously, they are lying...


Not necessarily. Renewals for RS units are typically delivered in-person (like by your super) or via certified mail. During the worst of COVID renewals sent via certified mail with return cards didn't get delivered and of course nobody wanted to be handed one from the super.

DHCR understood this situation. DHCR accepted that renewals returned by the post office represented a good-faith effort by the landlord to comply with the law. DHCR also accepted, in many cases, that renewals could be sent via email.

If your landlord can show that he made the effort to deliver your renewal via certified mail or the landlord recorded that he contacted you about arranging email delivery then DHCR will probably accept that.

After all, DHCR itself had many personnel working from home via phone and email. (And sometimes things moved faster because of that.)

By the way, I STILL have problems with certified mail. Except now the post office doesn't return the envelopes, the postman delivers but returns the green card unsigned, or not at all, or maybe signs it himself. Same headache with the certified stuff tenants send to me.
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby TenantNet » Tue Mar 15, 2022 2:32 pm

Typically delivered by the super?

Not in my experience. Until recently lease offers always came by certified mail (the initial lease requires that). Now they are playing even more games than usual, but never delivered by the super. Maybe in some buildings, but not in my experience. And when I get a proper renewal, I will return it by real certified mail, and not Certificate of Mailing.

Of course during Covid, the USPS would not make attempts at delivery. Some certified items were just left in the mailbox. I found one on the floor in the lobby. I think this has nothing to do with Covid, more just USPS laziness.

DHCR accepting renewals by email? Got any cases on that?
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby Landlords Boy » Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:54 pm

TenantNet wrote:DHCR accepting renewals by email? Got any cases on that?

No. I'm sure it's just a COVID thing and they'll go back to being Luddites at the first opportunity (if they haven't already).
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby TenantNet » Wed Mar 16, 2022 1:15 pm

It's not a question of being luddites; it's proper service. You should know that.
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Re: How to understand Rent History in terms of law

Postby Landlords Boy » Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:42 pm

"DHCR accepting renewals by email? Got any cases on that?"

See these recent updates from DHCR:

https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... 2022-1.pdf
https://hcr.ny.gov/system/files/documen ... e-form.pdf
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