can I collect attys fees w/o 1st lease?

[moonchilde]

I am currently in housing court on a non-payment in a rent-stabilized apt (which should be rent-controlled but isn't -- that's another long comlicated story). I am a sucessor tenant whose first lease in my own name was a renewal lease. The original lease was signed by my relatives in 1943 and I do not have copies of all the pages of that first lease (specifically, the last page with signatures, is missing). Upon completion of my case, if I were to prevail, does the fact that I don't have the original 1943 lease prevent me entirely from getting attorneys fees from the landlord? [My lawyer told me that I won't be able to collect attorneys fees. I don't think the landlord can possibly or would deny that my relatives leased the apartment at that time. Can't my lawyer argue this on my behalf ?] Also, at that time was it true that landlords had to keep leases on file with the city, so that I might be able to find another copy somewhere (someone told me this)?

[Emily Toth]

You might try talking to the predecessor agency to the DHCR, which I believe was a city agency with "Conciliation" in the title. They may have the lease on file. It may be in the municipal archives. Or you can attempt to subpoena the lease from the other side. Does the fragment of the lease that you have now refer to attorneys fees? Why did your lawyer say you couldn't get attorneys fees?
Emily

[Cranky Tenant]

DHCR (Division of Housing and Community Renewal) Is a New York State agency and has nothing to do with the Municiapl Archives.

http://www.dhcr.state.ny.us/

[Anna]

DHCR inherited all of the files from their predecessors, like the CAB in NYC: call them 718-739-6400. (CAB = Conciliation and Appeals Board, supervised RC and RS apts, not hotels, before DHCR).

[moonchilde]

Thanks for your responses. In reply to Emily's question, my lawyer told me I cannot collect atty's fees because I don't have the signature page of the original lease. Also I cannot subpoena from the current landlord because he did not own the bldg at that time. (I do not entirely trust my lawyer as he has done several things I find to be negligent toward my interests but I've paid too much money so far to be able to change lawyers). I have called DHCR, they told me to file a FOIL request asking for a copy of the original lease, "maybe" they have it on file. Is that the proper procedure to follow?

[Phil Cohen]

You can subpoena the DHCR too, I assume. They are very very slow, sluggish and unresponsive (surprise surprise) in response to FOI requests. The FOI form is available online at the DHCR site.

[Anna]

Your lawyer should subpeona DHCR: it is faster than FOIL.

[moonchilde]

I spoke to my lawyer again, and now he says I can't get attorneys fees because not only do I not have the last page but also the pages I do have don't refer to attys fees at all. He also said its not true that leases were required to be on file with the CAB, so trying to get it from DHCR is a waste of time. (will try anyway however)

Can anyone explain to me just what the law says regarding this matter? Is there required to be a provision in the lease for residential tenants to collect attys fees or they can't? Is one required to have a lease signed by one's relatives sixty years ago?

[Anna]

People can only collect atty fees IF there is a law or contract clause that provides for them. Then either they are the prevailing party after trial AND the judge awards the fees or the other party volunteers to pay them (happens to tenants a lot...)

There is no such law in non-payment cases; sometimes there is for one of the tenant's defenses or counterclaims, like rent-overcharge.

If the original lease does not exist, or it does not have the clause, no one can be awarded atty fees. LL's w/attys never volunteer to pay yours...