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Posted by Mark Smith on August 20, 1999 at 12:07:35:

In Reply to: Theory and reality posted by MikeW on August 20, 1999 at 09:52:35:

Mike W. should listen to DK, who is an attorney practicing real estate/landlord-tenant law.

: If the sublettor has no way of proving there is a sublet agreement (ie in writing), the cops will ask around the building how long the person has been there. If they find out that it is less than 30 days, and the subtenant has no other way of proving tenancy (bills, mail, etc), the cops can remove the subtenant. Whether they will would be up to the cops at the time/scene. The sublessor could sue the leaseholder, but without any written proof, they'd lose.

: : : The first thing is to definitely move back in. Since the your new situation aborted so quickly, with no paper trail (you didn't sign a lease, get utilities, etc to the new apt, did you?), you probably have little functional risk of being evicted from the new apartment.

: : : How long has the roommate, subtenant, whatever, been in the apartment? If its less then 30 days, and she can't substantiate more than that, and has no written agreement to the contrary, you can probably just have the cops throw her out. If she has been there more than 30 days, you'd have to get an eviction from housing court.

: : Mike W's advice is apalling. The police would not remove the new "subtenant" unless she was a squatter with
: : absolutely no right to be at the apartment. That's apparently not the case. As I indicated in my prior posting, your "subtenant"
: : probably has lots of rights. If you agreed to let her stay until a particular time, that's binding on you, even if it isn't in writing (if the term is less than one year).
: : If she has a legal right to be in the apartment and you lock her out she can quickly get a court order to get back into the
: : apartment--and she's entitled to triple damages from you. No one should ever try self help against anyone other than a burglar without first seeing a compentant landlord-tenant lawyer.
: : An awful lot of wise guys get socked for big damages.

Follow Ups:

• Re: Theory and reality MikeW 8/20/99 (2)
  • NYPD Patrol Guide, Unlawful Evictions Mark Smith 8/20/99 (1)
    • Re: NYPD Patrol Guide, Unlawful Evictions MikeW 8/20/99 (0)
• If he is, he should identify himself as such (nt) MikeW 8/20/99 (1)
  • Re: If he's a lawyer, he should identify himself Mark Smith 8/20/99 (0)

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Comments:
: Mike W. should listen to DK, who is an attorney practicing real estate/landlord-tenant law.

: 
: : If the sublettor has no way of proving there is a sublet agreement (ie in writing), the cops will ask around the building how long the person has been there.  If they find out that it is less than 30 days, and the subtenant has no other way of proving tenancy (bills, mail, etc), the cops can remove the subtenant.  Whether they will would be up to the cops at the time/scene.  The sublessor could sue the leaseholder, but without any written proof, they'd lose.

: : : : The first thing is to definitely move back in.  Since the your new situation aborted so quickly, with no paper trail (you didn't sign a lease, get utilities, etc to the new apt, did you?), you probably have little functional risk of being evicted from the new apartment.

: : : : How long has the roommate, subtenant, whatever, been in the apartment?  If its less then 30 days, and she can't substantiate more than that, and has no written agreement to the contrary, you can probably just have the cops throw her out.  If she has been there more than 30 days, you'd have to get an eviction from housing court.

: : : Mike W's advice is apalling. The police would not remove the new "subtenant" unless she was a squatter with
: : : absolutely no right to be at the apartment. That's apparently not the case. As I indicated in my prior posting, your "subtenant"
: : : probably has lots of rights. If you agreed to let her stay until a particular time, that's binding on you, even if it isn't in writing (if the term is less than one year).
: : : If she has a legal right to be in the apartment and you lock her out she can quickly get a court order to get back into the 
: : : apartment--and she's entitled to triple damages from you. No one should ever try self help against anyone other than a burglar without first seeing a compentant landlord-tenant lawyer. 
: : : An awful lot of wise guys get socked for big damages. 


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