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Posted by MikeW on December 27, 2000 at 11:26:22:

In Reply to: Re: Get a better lawyer posted by TenantNet on December 26, 2000 at 19:50:03:

See below:

: To the original poster: please realize this is >>Tenant<< Net and we're not here to help landlords find ways to evict tenants.

Acknowledged. But this does, on the surface, sound like an abusive tenant (refusing to pay rent, subdividing and subletting space).

:Having said that, you don't provide sufficient information to determine you or the tenant's rights.

Agreed

:It could get complicated if it falls under certain provisions of the loft law, or if it's a net lease, or if it's rent regulated. On the surface it sounds a if this tenant may be taking advantage of things, but again... there isn't enough information.

: But we suggest that you DO NOT follow the advice of MikeW. Changing the locks without the benefit of the legal process could land you up in jail. In NYC, illegal evictions are a criminal offense.

If you reread my suggestion, I said to give the 'Legal' tenant a key, hense no eviction. If their are illegal subtenants, they would have to identify themselves to the LL and request a key. The LL would be within his rights to make them state what business the have in the building. This would be VERY useful in any court action. At that point, he may or may not have to give them a key.

:No matter what rights the original tenant may have, these "subtenants" could also have rights. Better to get good legal advice. If need be, consult several attorneys as you might get different reads. But chances are all will tell you it's illegal to take matters into your own hands.

This is true, and I also implied, but didn't outright state, that fact.

:
: : This should be a pretty straightforward non-payment action. Real bread and butter stuff for any landlord attorney. The $5-10K in rent a month that your losing because she isn't paying will finance quite a bit of litigation.

: : Also, here's a quick way of dealing with her subtenants. Change the lock on the building door. Get a Medeco or Multilock cylinder that can't have a key cut for it without an identity card. You'll have to give her a copy, but only ONE copy. She won't be able to make more for her tenants.

: : : My family are the owners of a 5 story building in lower manhattan. The groud floor is rented out commercially, and the 4 floors above are all lofts (125' x 35'). A looong time ago, about 20 yrs now, maybe longer, a tenant moved in ( I believe she was/is an artist). She paid some rent for a while, then stopped completely. She started out renting two lofts, and completely stopped paying rent on both. A few years later, she divided up the lofts and subletted the area to other artists/tenants (and began collecting rent without paying us a dime). We have tried to remove her many times, but lawyers have told us that the time and effort required is not worth the reward. To me, this is crazy. A woman who claims to be an artist (Doesnt live in NYC for more than 3 months a yr, lives in Virginia for the other 9 mths) is living in our building rent free, and still collects rent from half a dozen of her own tenants. What can we do about this situation? Surely, there has to be a law that can have her removed. I was told that if the space was to be used for the owners of the building (ie: commerically for the owners of the building's use), she can be removed. Can anyone help me in this situation?
: : : Thanks,
: : : Denis G.

Follow Ups:

• Re: Yes, but... TenantNet 12/27/00 (1)
  • Just to make clear... MikeW 12/27/00 (0)

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Comments:
: See  below:

: : To the original poster: please realize this is >>Tenant<< Net and we're not here to help landlords find ways to evict tenants. 

: Acknowledged.  But this does, on the surface, sound like an abusive tenant (refusing to pay rent, subdividing and subletting space).

: 
: :Having said that, you don't provide sufficient information to determine you or the tenant's rights. 

: Agreed

: :It could get complicated if it falls under certain provisions of the loft law, or if it's a net lease, or if it's rent regulated. On the surface it sounds a if this tenant may be taking advantage of things, but again... there isn't enough information.

: : But we suggest that you DO NOT follow the advice of MikeW. Changing the locks without the benefit of the legal process could land you up in jail. In NYC, illegal evictions are a criminal offense. 

: If you reread my suggestion, I said to give the 'Legal' tenant a key, hense no eviction.  If their are illegal subtenants, they would have to identify themselves to the LL and request a key.  The LL would be within his rights to make them state what business the have in the building.  This would be VERY useful in any court action.  At that point, he may or may not have to give them a key.

: :No matter what rights the original tenant may have, these "subtenants" could also have rights. Better to get good legal advice. If need be, consult several attorneys as you might get different reads. But chances are all will tell you it's illegal to take matters into your own hands.

: This is true, and I also implied, but didn't outright state, that fact.

: 
: : 
: : : This should be a pretty straightforward non-payment action.  Real bread and butter stuff for any landlord attorney.  The $5-10K in rent a month that your losing because she isn't paying will finance quite a bit of litigation.

: : : Also, here's a quick way of dealing with her subtenants.  Change the lock on the building door.  Get a Medeco or Multilock cylinder that can't have a key cut for it without an identity card.  You'll have to give her a copy, but only ONE copy.  She won't be able to make more for her tenants.

: : : : My family are the owners of a 5 story building in lower manhattan.  The groud floor is rented out commercially, and the 4 floors above are all lofts (125' x 35').  A looong time ago, about 20 yrs now, maybe longer, a tenant moved in ( I believe she was/is an artist).  She paid some rent for a while, then stopped completely.  She started out renting two lofts, and completely stopped paying rent on both.  A few years later, she divided up the lofts and subletted the area to other artists/tenants (and began collecting rent without paying us a dime).  We have tried to remove her many times, but lawyers have told us that the time and effort required is not worth the reward.  To me, this is crazy.  A woman who claims to be an artist (Doesnt live in NYC for more than 3 months a yr, lives in Virginia for the other 9 mths) is living in our building rent free, and still collects rent from half a dozen of her own tenants.  What can we do about this situation?  Surely, there has to be a law that can have her removed.  I was told that if the space was to be used for the owners of the building (ie: commerically for the owners of the building's use), she can be removed.  Can anyone help me in this situation?
: : : : Thanks,
: : : : Denis G.


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